Arne Slot’s title win is being roundly disparaged because of what Liverpool were up against last season as he did little more than ‘keep them ticking over’ with Jurgen Klopp’s team.
Manchester United fans are enjoying football, there’s some response to the mail from Rwanda and some nostalgia over the Premier League mavericks.
Send your thoughts on anything and everything to theeditor@football365.com.
Slot just ‘kept them ticking over’
Quick counter-argument to Jason Souter’s piece saying everyone saying that Slot “only won with Klopp’s team” is missing the point that Klopp couldn’t/didn’t.
To that I’d say that he’s ignoring the key factor in why Liverpool won the league last year – Manchester City. City had a massive off-year, finishing 19 points worse off than they did the year before. Arsenal too, 15 points worse off.
Liverpool won the league last year with a pretty low points total by modern standards (not a criticism, they were the best team and deserved winners!) but Slot didn’t really do anything more than keep them ticking over – again, not a criticism, look what happened when David Moyes decided to tear up what worked for Fergie and start again!
If Klopp stayed an extra year, he’d of probably won the league last season. A N Other basically competent manager probably would’ve.
They’ve had a necessary big turn over in the summer. Slot passed the test of time not ballsing-up a good thing last season but now the challenge is to build something new. He may or may not be up to it!
Andy (MUFC)
‘A mop’ would have won the league
I think there is an important caveat in your statement – “Jamie O’Hara argues that Liverpool boss Arne Slot won the Premier League title with “Jurgen Klopp’s team”, but not even Jurgen Klopp won the Premier League with Jurgen Klopp’s team”. Klopp didn’t get to face the 24/25 versions of Man City and Arsenal, who went from achieving 91 and 89 points in 23/24 to achieving 71 and 74 points in 24/25 respectively. Klopp’s 82 points in his final season would’ve been enough to win him the title by 8 points last season.
So Jamie O’Hara’s point absolutely stands, Slot won the league with Klopp’s team and now we are seeing what he is really like as a manager with his own team. Last season they were up against an Arsenal team that were ruthless in their refusal to take advantage of any Liverpool slip up and never put them under any pressure at all. I am pretty sure I could’ve been Liverpool’s manager last season and they would’ve still won the league. In fact a mop could’ve been in the dugout draped in an Armani parka and they would’ve still won the league.
Seamus, Sweden
Slot still ‘Tcupping’
There is a saying in sporting circles, you may have heard of it – called Tcup.
Thinking Clearly Under Pressure.
While last night was another poor result for Liverpool, the one positive is that Arne Slot is still clearly Tcupping.
He could have played to the gallery and gone with a much stronger side. Many coaches might have, after the recent run of results.
But instead he made a pragmatic and correct decision to go as weak as possible. Knowing as he does that last season’s League Cup, with two semi final legs and a (lost) final all dotted around an FA Cup game and a CL tie vs PSG, ultimately cost them the chance to add more trophies and contributed to fatigue levels. Not to mention a far more important match v Villa on Saturday.
It may not feel like it right now, but freeing up that calendar space – while it’s likely that Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Newcastle knock several shades out of each other in two legged semi finals in January – might just be an inspired decision.
Time will tell of course. But there’s no doubt Slot is still thinking clearly, which bodes well.
Andy H, Swansea.
Slot and Kevin Pietersen
Seeing Slot talking about not conceding from 14 out of 16 set pieces and then everyone saying Liverpool are week when it comes to defending set pieces.
Reminds me of when KP was batting for England and he had a “weakness” against left arm spin. However, what was happening is that when he came in to bat, the bowling side would put a left arm spinner on.
Given he was always going to get out at some point, and given they are quite hard to score runs off, was it a weakness, or was it just a case of prophecy.
When a team mainly scores from set pieces because they have 40 in a match, does that mean they’re good at set pieces or does it just mean by the law of averages, they will eventually score from them.
Fwiw, I think the goalkeeper and fullbacks are key here. When you have new players in each of these positions, how the ball comes in will be different and what the keeper does next will be different.
Whether Trent was a good defender or not, he was consistent. You knew what was gonna happen.
With Kerkez and whoever is on the right next, neither Konate or Van Dijk know, and the keeper has no chance of knowing.
Anyway, back to work.
Rob, Hove
£400m victims
“I saw Manchester City’s starting eleven and they didn’t have one starter from the weekend, but it felt like their best team. That is a bit of an insight. Chelsea can bring Estevao in. After I made two substitutions tonight, we had six teenagers.”
So, and let me just clarify this Arne, because I want to be absolutely sure I have this right: You’re saying you’re the victim of the bigger boys spending, and it’s not your fault? Despite being reigning champions who just broke the transfer record twice as part of a £400m summer window?
I’d say it’s a very good thing indeed that this noble club’s fans really mean it when they warble their maudlin pre match ditty, so you will never, ever, walk alone my son. Ask Trent. Or Karius.
🤣
RHT/TS x
Meaning more
Did Lee really watch 30 hours of Feyenoord games just because Liverpool appointed their manager?
It really must mean more…
Chris, NUFC
Man Utd excitement
Some decent pieces in the mail box and “Matt Fun to Watch Man Utd” really did resonate with me. The sentiments are so similar to mine that I could have written that article; just probably not so well. People always ask me how I feel about United’s predicaments over the last few years and it’s really something you have to be zen about. Football moves in cycles and you can never be at the top of the pile indefinitely. It would be naive to think you can so any long term football fan has to be content with being rubbish every now and then. All this too shall pass, you never step into the same river twice etc etc. And although we might not be on the precipice of greatness again I do agree with Matt, there is something exciting and fun to watch about United football again, beyond the nailbiting anxiety of how long until Onana absolutely f#$@s it again. Even if we’re not winning anything just yet it is heartening to see some passion and excitement after years of apathy.
Talking about cycles is a good way to address “P Didi He Not”‘s opinion on a broken league. It wasn’t too long ago people were bemoaning Mourinho’s habit of parking the bus and losing the keys and Many managers have been told that a strong defense is more likely to keep you in the Prem than free flowing YOLO football (a la Blackpool in 2011). I’ve also seen videos on Instagram complaining about it; specifically one doorknob who made a big deal complaining about how Liverpool can’t score because every game they’re having to score against 11 men in the box. Ignoring how obviously dumb that is, this Liverpool team is not the only team to have to try to find a way through the bus. In the eternal flux of football, these things come and go. It’s the nature of the game. If you can’t score goals against a strong defense then there is this guy who gets paid lots and lots of money whose job it is to find a way to get around that…..something starting with an ‘M’?
Finally a quick word on “Turiyo Damascene”‘s letter. I understand your frustrations about what you perceive as people conflating Rwandan tourism with Rwandan government activities but unfortunately that is what happens when your government funds a rebel paramilitary group to destabilise the Eastern Congo so it can pilfer gold and precious metals to be exported. Rwanda has even faced sanctions because of the questionable nature of where this gold, and other conflict minerals, are coming from. Visit Rwanda is just an example of SportsWashing and it shouldn’t have a place in football; it should be apolitical and any hint of dodginess should preclude you from any football related advertising etc. I understand that doesn’t reflect you as a person but unfortunately it is the policy of the country you belong to.
Sincerely,
Less Disgruntled RSA
P.S. Turiyo you guys might have tonked us in Goma but at least we’re going to the World Cup!
READ MORE: The five ‘right’ signings Manchester United should make after statement of intent
So long, Badwolf
Imagine my surprise when reaching the end of a mail that included (1) no sweet nothings about Utd’s best player, Marcus Rashford; (2) some general whining about how Bruno Fernandes is annoying (who actually IS Utd’s best player); or (3) usual Amorim out rhetoric.
After actively campaigning for both the sale of our Captain and best player (who since his debut for Utd in 2020 ranks 1st for: appearances, goals, assists, shots and chances created), and the sack of Amorim, was I the only one to pick up on some poetic irony in this mail? To then castigate the modern game for being too short-termist and unable to bond with players / managers stands in stark contrast for Badwolf’s consistent calls to sell any of the squad he doesn’t personally like, sell our captain and sack the manager. Ironic indeed.
It appears that rather than the game being short-termist (which there are arguments for ever since Abramovic) this is instead a personal issue, where BW has unfortunately joined Player FC as opposed to Manchester United FC. By deciding that Marcus Rashford could do no wrong (despite the obvious evidence to the contrary, with Belfast just the latest example), that Bruno was ‘useless’ and the manager needed the sack – then the only way for this to end to BW’s satisfaction is the return of Rashford, sale of Bruno and sacking of Amorim. Again this stands in stark contrast to the core of his mail.
I think for the vast majority of supporters, the club still remains the priority, which is at it should be. Fergie famously said no player is bigger than the team, and the club is what will endure long past even legends have retired. So for his own sake maybe a breather and some introspection will do BW the world of good – but the rest of us will continue supporting the club rather than players.
LOH, London
P.S. imagine not enjoying beating Liverpool at Anfield! Some fan.
Maverick nostalgia
Have to agree with a lot of the recent discussion about the general quality of gameplay in the league dropping over recent years, with the lack of truly exciting players like Hazard, Berbatov, Ozil, Zola etc. What made those players so great was not just the obvious skill, but the lack of (or perceived lack) of work ethic going with it. As system based ‘philosophies’ have taken over individual players matter less, with the best sides of the last fifteen years prioritising the overall team rather than squeezing in the luxury players of the past.
READ MORE: Was Eden Hazard the last of the great Premier League mavericks?
For me this started with the tika-taka, ultra system based play of Barcelona and Spain, and subsequently teams trying to copy this. This system required a new set of tactics to counter it, and step forward the heavy metal football of teams like Klopp’s Liverpool which although was faster paced still relied on the whole team buying into the overall structure. Pressing doesn’t work if it isn’t cohesive. Within those systems players who were in the right place and the right time, and who filled particular roles, were favoured. Not to say they weren’t talented, but the contribution to the team effort became more important than individual game breaking. Even the best teams of recent years relied more on perfecting certain moves (City with the byline cut backs, Liverpool with the high press forcing mistakes). The stars of those teams are/were brilliant, but not in a cult hero, streets won’t forget way, more of a inevitable, robotic way. The one real exception to this I think is TAA, whose shortcomings to the system were overridden by his individual, maverick abilities.
Finally, good quality teams throughout the league have mastered the low block, knowing it’s the best chance of a result against the increasingly strong best teams, particularly as these teams are filled with system based players who struggle to be unpredictable
This has led to the set piece becoming more prominent. Arsenal (my team) in particular have focussed on perfecting set pieces as a consistent way of getting around the low block and of course other teams will step up their own set piece game in response.
All of this does lead to a more boring game, with many matches becoming athletic games of chess. This is why I predict the mavericks will return. The best way to beat a low block, or a high press for that matter, is with a genuine piece of unpredictable skill. Players will come into the game and instead of passing sideways for twenty minutes hoping to force a long throw in will break the lines with chaos causing moves. Todays pragmatic managers will realise this could be an effective tactic and start incorporating maverick players back into their teams and we’ll have our ballers back like its 2000 all over again when everything was better (insert joke about this site losing its way here).
Dave (living in hope) South Wales
What do you want from your football club?
I’ve been wanting to write this for a couple weeks/months, in response to various things I have read here and elsewhere; last night’s match has surprisingly inspired me to finally pull the trigger, for the exact opposite reason.
When I read people writing about football, I often find myself wanting to ask them, “What do you actually want/expect from your football club? – as a genuine question, not rhetorical. There are many valid answers to this question. Some people want a social connection with fellow fans. Some people want the glory from being associated with a successful club. Some people want something bigger to identify with, regardless of success. Some people want a stick to beat others with, in the banter stakes, whether that is their colleagues/neighbours/randoms on the internet.
I find it hard to take a lot of what people say/write seriously when it comes to football debates and opinions, as a consequence of this. Here I’m largely referring to both rival fans prescribing minimum requirements for what Liverpool ‘must’ achieve this season, and to Liverpool fans having massive temper tantrums about things not going as they hoped this season, after having won two league titles in the last five years and bearing in mind the Diogo Jota tragedy.
I would answer this question by saying that I just want my football club to give me something relevant and entertaining to watch + talk/read about throughout the football season. I don’t think I set the bar particularly high when defining “relevant and entertaining” either: I can live with Liverpool’s league fixtures being “relevant” because we are fighting for 5th place or even Europa League qualification. I am not a snob when it comes to styles of football being “entertaining”.
Which brings me to last night’s match. I am quite annoyed with Arne Slot’s team selection and decision to essentially forfeit the Carabao Cup. I looked forward to watching that match. I made an effort to get home on time to watch it. I was left very disappointed – not because Liverpool lost, but because it was clear that the loss had been accepted as of around ~5 minutes into the second half. I do not mind that we won’t win the League Cup, but I am very disappointed that I will now get to watch between 1 and 4 fewer Liverpool matches this season. I’m also fairly empathetic at times and I felt terrible for the 50,000+ fans at Anfield in the pouring rain, stuck watching something they may very well have skipped, if Slot had given them a heads up that he just wanted to lose.
This is not a Slot Out mail, but it has definitely made me far less appreciative of him. I would not describe him as being “on thin ice”, but I would definitely describe the ice as gradually thinning.
Oliver Dziggel, Geneva Switzerland
Rwanda response
Hi Turiyo Damascene. Its great to hear from you from Rwanda. There is a piece missing in your letter that you may have missed. In the UK we have a problem with a large number of migrants being criminally trafficked at great risk to themselves to the UK. We then have a liberal legal system that has tied itself up in knots about what to do with these migrants at great expense to the taxpayer. In Britain about 10 years ago a right wing Conservative government, through a program known as austerity, starved communities and the poorest in society resulting in a rise in children being criminalised for drug trafficking, no social housing for families, a rise in food banks and many other things that a developed country should be ashamed of. The aim was to balance the country’s books. This lasted until covid when instead they rushed to give away all of our money to their mates through a VIP lane which bypassed the procurement rules for government.
The disenfranchised people have been targeted by far right wing extremists and led to believe that migrants are being propped up in cushy hotels at a significant cost to the taxpayers instead of their problems being met. Valid concerns supported by data which show that poor white people in Britain have the lowest outcomes in school and work, although this will have been run through the social media misinformation machine. The Conservative government, to appease their voters so that they aren’t lost to which ever far right party Nigel Farage is running, launched a deterrent scheme where they would immediately ship migrants to Rwanda whilst it was worked out what would be done with them. The idea being that Rwanda was such a shit place be that it would be so off putting for these people that they wouldn’t come. Going to Rwanda would be even worse than crossing the channel on a dinghy and whatever else had happened to them on the way.
So the day before this announcement, yes, everything you say about Rwanda is fair. But the day after, Visit Rwanda became this threat. A visible advert for short sighted and spiteful policies that target the poorest and most vulnerable in society and the contempt shown by a party for its citizens and these migrants. Coming to this country are you? Well, you’ll be off to visit Rwanda if you do!
Still, it the cost the government millions to not send a single person so it’s a good way to get UK taxpayer’s money back in to the UK!
All the best to you in Rwanda.
Alex, South London
PS – Slot should have played to win the Palace game. Winning breeds winning. But he also should have rotated a couple, defo Konate and VVD.
